Mounting engine on a stand

JimD

JimD

Waiting for Godot...
Moderator
Hi guys and gals,

I need to mount a 1500 on an engine stand. I do not have the engine here yet, in preparation for it's arrival I have a question. What size and length of bolts will I need to mount the block to the stand.

I will do some searching as well.

Thanks!!
 
M12 X 1.25 looks like a winner in the archives

any ideas on a good length? I figure 3-4 inches???
 
The two silver bolts in this pic are M12 x 1.25 3" under their (formerly attached) heads, so hopefully that gets you thinkin' in the right direction...
IMG_1124.jpg


It's ridiculously hard to find a source for larger metric hardware in my neighborhood so I ordered them from McMaster along with a few other miscellaneous hardware items to justify the shipping.
 
Thanks Dan

I need them tomorrow, so I will have to do some searching at the hardware stores tonight.
 
While U wait...

The engine will sit nicely on a rolling pallet (Home Depot) with a 0.5" piece of plywood
wedged in the appropriate place underneath the oil pan.
I rebuilt my engine with it sitting on one, and used an engine crane to lift it up to replace
the oil pan with a cleaned one.

Jim, you planning on an engine rebuild? (internals)
 
No internals if I can help it Bob

I am getting the engine from Chris Schaeffer and he is a mechanic extraordinaire. This is out of a running, yet rusty, 81/82 X Chris is parting out. Chris had changed the timing belt, tuned it up, etc, a while back before moving on to a better X, so at least it is a "known" engine.

Chris is pushing me to do all the right things while the engine is out, so I can only imagine we will tear into it and replace anything Chris finds questionable. Then it goes into the 78. I have all winter and I am sure it will take every bit of it. Chris is a bundle of energy, but I am a lazy b*stard. :(
 
Ha! Well, it'll be good to

have all winter to work on it. I suppose having it on a stand means not worrying about someone knocking it over. :)

Have fun with it and remember, Winter goes by fast. :wink2:

How about a picture of YOU standing inside the engine bay?? :confuse2:
 
When I get that far I will take a pic.

There is still an engine in there currently. I need to get the cars switched out.

7879garage3vw.jpg


This is an old picture of my 78 and the 79 I sold, but you get the idea. The 78 is in the back of the garage right now and needs to come out so I can get at it.
 
What class do I need. 8.8 or 10.9?

As far as grade goes. McMaster-Carr only has M12x1.25 in longer lengths in class 8.8. Is that good enough?

Lowe's had a spot in the drawer for M12x1.25 80mm, but no stock and I wasn't sure what grade. The helpful (not!) lady at Lowe's did have an X1/9 in her youth, so I gave her bonus points for that. :)

Most other places do not carry m12x1.25. M12x1.5 and 1.75 seem popular though. I plan to call a few more Lowe's stores in the morning.
 
I've been using 8.8 without worries

We're only talking about 100-200 pounds of static load, without cyclic fatigue-generating loads.
 
Thanks Eric

I was hoping that was the answer. I will try to track some down locally in the morning.
 
Thanks JJ

Good to hear. Especially since the 8.8's seem easiest to come by. :)
 
In auto applications, the down-and-dirty rule of thumb is that metric 8.8 is the rough equivalent of SAE Grade 5, and metric 12.9 is the rough equivalent of SAE Grade 8.

Of course there are nuances of difference, but conceptually grade 5/metric 8.8 is right for most auto fastening applications and grade 8 /metric 12.9 is right for when higher strength is needed.

Too bad you're in a hurry or else I could mail you the three extras I got from McMaster, as the lowest qty they sell is a pack of 5.
 
They are pricey in single quantities locally

I finally found a store that claims to have 70mm, 80mm and 90mm in stock, but they are about $4USD each. My engine stand was only $30 at HF. :)
 
Grade 8.8 = SAE 5 or about AN3 to 16.

Grade 10.9 = SAE 8

Grade 12.9 = US industry alloy steel socket head cap screw

Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
In auto applications, the down-and-dirty rule of thumb is that metric 8.8 is the rough equivalent of SAE Grade 5, and metric 12.9 is the rough equivalent of SAE Grade 8.

Of course there are nuances of difference, but conceptually grade 5/metric 8.8 is right for most auto fastening applications and grade 8 /metric 12.9 is right for when higher strength is needed.

Too bad you're in a hurry or else I could mail you the three extras I got from McMaster, as the lowest qty they sell is a pack of 5.
Click to expand...
 
It's not the static weight, there are bending loads (engine works as a lever on these bolts) involved when the engine is mounted on an engine stand. If the bolts were in pure tension (which is the correct way to use a bolt) or double shear (OK, with proper bolts and joint design) No problem what so ever, but due to the bending load and bolts in single shear...more than one bolt is required.

Think how the problem grab handle on Hubble was broken off so the repair could continue. An example of the lever effect.

Regardless, four grade 8.8 is more than good enough.

EricH said:
We're only talking about 100-200 pounds of static load, without cyclic fatigue-generating loads.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry to break it to you Jim... M12x1.25 thread bolts are rather exotic. The ISO standard thread pitch is 1.75 and trying to get anything higher grade than 8.8 becomes a serious problem.

If there are some early M12 head bolts from a FIAT SOHC, these can work for mounting the engine.

I have some to send you if you're willing to wait for USPS. Another suggestion is head over to your local Toyota dealer and be nice to the parts folks. M12x1.25 is common on Toyota's.

Regardless, be prepared to pay more than expected.

Ya, know.. the majority of car folks I know take bolts, nuts and screws for granted. There is a belief they cost next to nothing and anything that fits is fine. The reality is many times much more complex than this. Joint design when done properly and with extensive considerations is very complex and not simple to get it right. It's due to way over design that prevents the vast majority of problems..still broken bolts, screws and such happen way too often on many DIY vehicles.

JimD said:
I finally found a store that claims to have 70mm, 80mm and 90mm in stock, but they are about $4USD each. My engine stand was only $30 at HF. :)
Click to expand...
 
Bernice, I got some bolts at a local hardware store this morning.

Thanks for all the suggestions and info everybody.

I guess I got lucky. Arther striking out at Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, and True Value. I found the bolts at a local family hardware store that has the best selection of metrics I have seen in my area. They only had a couple of each size bolt in stock, but there was a good selection of lengths on 8.8 M12x1.25 (40,50,60,65,70,80,100mm).

I got six bolts total, two 65mm, two 70mm and two 80mm. I also got a couple nuts just in case and lot of washers. Looking at my receipt, it appears the gentleman working the counter was feeling pretty generous. He even said, "These are all metrics" when I told him the sizes. These were all loose unmarked bolts, so I guess he didn't feel like looking them up? He charged me one penny per mm in bolt length. i.e. 80mm = 80 cents. :)

It was under $10 for all this, so I am pretty happy.
 
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