BB4RE... has become a popular Tag...

Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
or License Plate expression summarizing our thoughts and even the thoughts of FIAT and its advertisers as well.

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Technically speaking... Bertone really only built ONE Ferrari body and that was the beautiful 308GT4...

L1020099.jpg


and regardless of what kind of engine on manages to place in a car, the car is still known for its BODY.

Bertone is probably best known outside of this community for the bodies it built for Lamborghini... and of course inside this community for our X1/9s it built for Fiat. Kinda like and "AC Cobra, powered by Ford..." I think it might be more accurate and even appropriate to say we have a "Baby Lamborghini, powered by Fiat".

Here's my new plate... with tags good for the next 5 years...



Thought you guys might enjoy it... (Not too pretentious is it?)
 
and arguably...

The best looking (or one of the best looking) for the era of Ferraris.

I have always assumed "baby ferrari" was more a connection between the awesome look and drive of the car with the most well known italian sports car on a "baby" or mini level :hmm:

But - you are definitely onto something Tony - the comparison is better suited IMO as well.
 
Nice Tony,

BUT Lamborghini is part of the Volkswagen / Audi empire .... Ferrari is -and since the 70's- has been part of the Fiat empire and that is never going to change, it's far too an iconic brand.

For the last 25 years I would always point out to people the FIAT rhomboid on the nose of Ferrari F1 cars (this year they carry the alfa romeo symbol WTF)

Its a FIAT, be proud and boast about it...

but nice plate :)

Steve
 
308

hey boys!!
recognize the outer door handles?? thought so:woot:
my favorite Ferrari was the 246 Dino. x size and v-8 performance.
mikemo
 
Yeah, I know... but I thought it would be a nice spin...

as we use the exact same door handles! HA!

One slight correction though... I believe Sergio Marchionne just spun off Ferrari from FCA a few months back.

Just so ya know... I am PROUD of my FIAT and just love pointing out to Chrysler and Jeep owners their Mulit-aire V6s and I4s are of Italian design by FIAT. HAHAHA!

I am also a CHAMPION for FIAT as well and I believe under Sergio's leadership its not only going to thrive, but excel. BUT... I am more of an X1/9 guy over everything else, and doubt if I will ever find anything else that can replace it! I don't even NEED for it to have any more power either! I guess that does it... after 32 years of self abuse, I don't think there is a cure for me...
 
Sorry guys - but as a 308gt4 (thanks for the compliments!) and X1/9 owner I can confirm that the handles may LOOK the same - but they are in fact different. The GT4 handle part that you actually lift is polished stainless rather than chromed and the backing piece is cast alloy, painted black (apart from the ring around the outside which is polished) not plastic.

They are interchangeable though!

I'm not sure if Uracco's had X1/9 or GT4 handles. Probably GT4's as the Uracco was originally designed by Bertone for Ferrari as the GT4 and Enzo personally rejected it. I love the GT4 shape but I also love the Uracco - I cant see what offended the Old Man so much myself...
 
Missed one

Papa Tony

"Technically speaking... Bertone really only built ONE Ferrari body and that was the beautiful 308GT4..."

Are we forgetting the 208GT4... the smallest production V8 in history for a road car. Okay same body so a bit pedantic

But seriously

The 250 GT SWB #3269GT / #1739GT by Bertone !!

Depends upon the Anorack wearing semantics of what one classifies as "built". Enzo built the chassis but generally the bodies were made by whomever until car manufactures started doing everything 'in house' in the 1990's. When Pinn was building almost all the bodies for the 250 Nuccio Bertone did order a few chassis from Enzo and put his own body on it. Perhaps a way of showing Enzo what his company was capable of.

This showcar was Nuccio Bertone's personal transportation, he ordered and paid for the chassis himself. When the rolling chassis were sent Enzo wrote a short note ( as he often did ), Ferrari wrote "your thoughts and words are the unmistakable signs of a man gripped by the same passion that has led me to where I am today" ¹

http://coachbuild.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=50&g2_itemId=1319

Some say there were two others say that Bertone made three of Enzo's 250 bodies. The vast majority of 250's are Pinin Farina coachwork but some bodies were also made by Carrozzeria Scaglietti. Pinn is the one that is remembered by the public in general though. I have won many a beer over the bet that the 250 California was not a Pinin, Ferrari's most coveted model the 250 California + 250 GTO were Carrozzeria Scaglietti (the 'garage' across the road from Ferrari).


WRT to Enzo not liking Nuccio's work I have a hunch it was the other way around. Nuccio was a very proud man who wouldn't be seen in coachwork by any other Carrozzeria. Pinn was favored by the old man in Maranello perhaps as Nucio was far too busy with more mainstream car makers like Alfa and other European volume car manufacturers.

Last time I read one of these coming to Auction it was 15-18 million, not sure of what the number was when the gavel fell.


¹ Anselmi, Angelo et. al. Making a Difference, Le Edizioni Dell Opificio: 2006.




"Ferrari is not for Sale", shares possibly but no majority block to exercise operating control.

The much discussed IPO to create cash for FCA may never happen. Sergio is talking the price up and says the valuation is WAY below what it is worth, numbers roughly 5 but Sergio wants 10 Billion many say this is one reason why Sergio and Luca fell out and Luca was told to go. The 10 billion euro valuation would represent around 60 percent of the group’s total value. If Sergio achieves enough operating cashflow then I doubt it will see the light of day, the IPO has been talked about for many years. The current 'plan' was to sell 10% of Ferrari in the IPO and distribute the other 80% it owns in the sports-car maker to FCA shareholders to create a key component in Fiat Chrysler’s plans to invest 48 billion euros in new product and global growth over the next five years.


That spinoff was scheduled for the beginning of June just passed, new date is October (Oct. 12, 2015, is one year since completion of the merger that produced Fiat/Chrysler). Lots of smoke and mirrors going on, if you can guess what he is really going to do ring your stockbroker, be warned Serg is a master of misdirection and strategic planning.

I don't think we will see the IPO this year, former Ferrari chairman Luca di Montezemolo ( now at Alitalia ) has been mumbling in the press against the move, as he always did. You could guess that 15 Billion is what Sergio really wants. The news feeds I read come out of Europe but I read the Wall Street Journal was running a column on it, if you can get past the damn paywalls or subscribe perhaps worth a look. Currently Sergio's pet 'concept' of more inter brand engineering development between the makers is being ignored across the Auto sector, I feel that if he has the cash then he will have better leverage - that would be a really interesting legacy when he retires in a few years time. I'm not saying it's good - just interesting in how it will change the landscape of global Auto manufacture.


Not well known but interesting all the same Henry Ford II blew the deal of the century when he was approached by Enzo to buy into the company, but Enzo walked away when he realized the American wanted ALL of the say and ALL of the control so Enzo would not be at the helm. Agnelli took it up and Enzo kept the big chair with FIAT taking operating control.

Fiat acquired 50% of Ferrari in 1969 and expanded its stake to 90% in 1988, but Ferrari is not for sale in a majority stake sense. Much to the disappointment of now retired VAG boss Ferdinand Karl Piëch, father of the Audi Quattro and the Bugatti Veyron, 'grandson' of Ferdinand Porsche, it is he who over saw the acquisition of Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti. He wanted it so bad that his efforts brought some rather strong public words from current FCA boss Sergio.

Enzo Ferrari's 10% share is currently owned by his son Piero Lardi Ferrari, it will NEVER be sold now matter how much he is offered. They are OLD money and if you understand Italian culture, Royalty ( his grand mother was Princess Virginia Bourbon del Monte )

Edit: Mea Culpa. Ooops Thats the Agneli blood line not Ferrari, but the message is the same these two families want to take control of Ferrari so it cant be raided by 'barbairans'.

Get a load of this and the picture of whats going on may make sense


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...mily-to-tighten-grip-on-ferrari-after-spinoff



One sad thing is if it does go ahead, the Ferrari company will be listed on the New York Stock Exchange as a Dutch holding headquartered in the UK, following in the footsteps of parent Fiat Chrysler, which is also now based in London.

Technically it ceases to be Italian.
 
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Here's a few cool 250SWB Bertone photos:

tumblr_ns2endTa6w1rctae8o1_1280.gif


tumblr_ns2endTa6w1rctae8o2_1280.jpg


A very special car. Ultra desirable. I'd have no hesitation cutting off body parts. To my eyes though not as pretty as the Lusso. It conflicts me that I find most of Pininfarina's work somewhat "contrived" - almost cynical - and yet for me his 250 Lusso was, is, and always will be, the most perfectly proportioned car ever made. I sat in one about 10 years ago and chatted for an hour with the owner. Sadly with values now through the stratosphere I should have taken the offer to go for a ride as I'm unlikely to ever be offered that again. Sigh.

PS - I love this photo too. Nuccio with his personal 308GT4.
NuccioDino.jpg
 
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Thanks for that image of the wooden formers

I once saw the aluminium bodied one and it isn't 'pretty' from the front where they transferred the then current F1 noses of the racing cars onto their version of the road car. But from the rear 3 quarter it looked great with the 'cab rear' proportions.

Classic cars are getting expensive, I passed on a mint Alfa Montreal over a decade ago, and by current standards it was darn cheap. One was sold at Hemmings for $170+ K what the what!!

Saw a red one of yours on the Gold coast a few years back - Yours? I imagine most of them were red, sounded sweet.

Lesson here is never pass up the offer to go around the block in a supercar, classic sports car. A rare treat of a shrinking opportunity, most will become trailer queens.:(
 
That spinoff was scheduled for the beginning of June just passed, new date is October (Oct. 12, 2015, is one year since completion of the merger that produced Fiat/Chrysler). Lots of smoke and mirrors going on, if you can guess what he is really going to do ring your stockbroker, be warned Serg is a master of misdirection and strategic planning.

Didn't deserve it's own thread, but time to grab you cheque book if you are interested. Priced at or around $50 per share, but who knows.

The IPO was registered (RACE) on the 12 Oct - Officially.

Well Sergio is a man who remembers anniversaries, if you go to the article the guy in the pink waist coat has many reasons to smile.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/12/fca-ferrari-ipo-official/
Ferrari NV is born
 
1959 Pontiac

I know I've seen that front end somewhere.....Yep, on my Dad's 1959 Pontiac Catalina! We had this color only in the 2-door model:

3796684834_ecb6df9fba.jpg


This was our family car from '59 to '65.
 
Who copied who Dan? HA... Ya know Billy Mitchell...

over at GM glommed onto a whole bunch of Euro exotics and told his Skunk Work's designers he wanted the NEW Corvette to emulate them.

Pete Brock's drawing (he was 19) was selected and hence the '63 Split-Window fastback Corvette was born!

(Zora Argus Duntov was so pissed he told the GM President that either that split window goes or he goes... and therefore it only last 1 year... and the C2 itself only last 4.)
 
Do you think these cars have a common DNA?

BTW Rich... the holidays are coming and I'm down to 1 can of you know what!

HA!

Hey... just give me the link... thanks!
 
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