New '70 850 spider

S

snarferer

Low Mileage
Hello everyone,
I just picked up an 850 spider that I'm pretty excited about. Happy these forums are here because I haven't seen much else forum wise online about the 850s.

Mostly wanted to introduce myself here, but also wanted to ask a question:

I have the original ( I think) owners manual, but wanted to pick up a service manual as well. What is regarded as the best manual for this car? I've seen a few on ebay for big bucks and a few for $20.
 
It's best to get as many manuals as possible.
The factory manual is great of course but assumes you know your doing and that you have factory tools.
The Haynes manuals are pretty good but often times state "reassembly is reverse of disassembly" not much help if you bought a basket case and didn't take it apart.
Autobooks #765 is a good one.

I search old used book stores and buy any manual I can.

Congratulations on your new spider, pictures?
 
Welcome Guys and call or write...

www.Autobooks-Aerobooks.com and ask if they have any literature.

(818) 845-0707

Tell'um Tony sent ya...

Secondly... call the Neathercutt Museum and ask for Skip or anyone in the Library. They probably have the largest selection of literature on this planet. They charge a nominal fee to duplicate. If they have trouble mailing I can always swing by there and pick it up and mail to ya.

http://www.nethercuttcollection.org/EndPage.aspx?page=library

818) 364-6464 x235

or email

smarketti*nethercuttcollection.org

HTH...
 
Thanks for the advice re:manuals. I'll upload pictures soon.

I do have another problem and I apologize in advance because I'm sure it's something idiotic I've done.

Car was running great and then out for a drive it cut out and wouldn't start back up. The wire running from the transformer to the distributer was rotten and had given way! Patched it roadside and then put in a new wire today. The car is starting okay, runs great at 3-4k while warming up. Once I hit operating temperature, I let off the throttle enough (slowly) to go back towards idle. As soon as I let my foot off the gas it dies. No sputtering, it immediately cut out.

What could I possibly have done in connecting a wire from the transformer to the distributor to cause this? All the fuel lines looked intact.
 
I don't recall if your carburetor has an idle cutoff solenoid. If it does it would have a wire running to it which if left off will turn off the fuel flow when you get off the gas.

It could also be an unrelated event such as grit/dirt or similar clogging the idle circuit of the carburetor.

You may néed to adjust your slow idle speed, this is a small screw adjustment on the throttle arm. What may have been happening is that it prior to warming up it was on the fast idle cam of the choke and once warm you pushed in the choke which allows the throttle to close completely, letting the engine die.

There is good documentation in most of the manuals for how to deal with this.

These cars are known for this issue particularly with the later carbs, some modify by getting an earlier intake manifold and make a Frankenstein carburetor from the later base and the early top cover which gets rid of some questionable emissions hardware but keeps the larger throats of the later carbs.
 
new 850

congrats on the purchase!!!
I highly recommend the factory manual. most others are from England or such and have a perpendency to add photos of the repair with a transposed picture. very frustrating to a newbee.
point of reference..... it has a centrifugal oil filter at the end of the crank. it should be cleaned every 600 miles and installed with a new o ring. cheap insurance.
HOW ABOUT SOME PICS!!!!
mikemo
 
Not even close.

mikemo90 said:
it has a centrifugal oil filter at the end of the crank. it should be cleaned every 600 miles and installed with a new o ring.
Click to expand...

600 miles??? :wacko: The factory service spec on this is 36,000 miles.
 
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kmead said:
I don't recall if your carburetor has an idle cutoff solenoid. If it does it would have a wire running to it which if left off will turn off the fuel flow when you get off the gas.

It could also be an unrelated event such as grit/dirt or similar clogging the idle circuit of the carburetor.

You may néed to adjust your slow idle speed, this is a small screw adjustment on the throttle arm. What may have been happening is that it prior to warming up it was on the fast idle cam of the choke and once warm you pushed in the choke which allows the throttle to close completely, letting the engine die.

There is good documentation in most of the manuals for how to deal with this.

These cars are known for this issue particularly with the later carbs, some modify by getting an earlier intake manifold and make a Frankenstein carburetor from the later base and the early top cover which gets rid of some questionable emissions hardware but keeps the larger throats of the later carbs.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I'm still waiting on the shipment of the three different repair manuals I've purchased.

I unfortunately haven't had much time to pursue fixing this but have the following:

I did not see an idle cutoff solenoid on the carb. If one is supposed to be there, do you have the location? I'm flying a little blind without the factory manual, but nothing on the carb resembles a solenoid.

To clarify re: idle speed and warmup. Once the car starts, if I let my foot off the accelerator at ANY point cold, warm. Choke open, choke closed, halfway in between. It immediately cuts out. But once I get the manuals (supposed to be starting Monday) I will play with the idle speed adjuster.

For Pictures:




Note the orange-ish wire running from the ignition coil across the radiator fan and into the distributor is the wire I replaced. I will take a current picture when I get home tonight if any of you can tell me where I F'd up.



Thanks for all your help so far everyone. This is my first classic car and I feel like I jumped into the deep end of the pool with cement shoes on!
 
So I went over to our new house where all of my manuals have been moved to.

Nope, no idle shut off in a 1970.

I would start off doing the following:

Pull the choke out fully.

Remove the air cleaner just to save your back. Undo the three over enter catches remove the top then remove the three nuts from the studs on the top of the carburetor that hold the air cleaner housing on. Remicve the air cleaner being careful of the metallic bellows hose to the exhaust manifold and the oil vapor house coming from the oil filler area.

Remove the idle mixture screw. It is located at the base of the carb and sticks out of the right side of the carb when standing behind the car. The screw has a spring concentric on the screw it is all by itself down there with no linkages or other extranea around it. I would completely take it out, clean it with carb cleaner, spray some cab cleaner in to the hole it came out of using the straw stuck all the way in and then screw the part all the way back in until it hits the stop, don't bear down as this is brass being screwed into a zinc housing. Then unscrew it one full turn.

Now try starting the engine and see if it will idle. If it won't idle, try unscrewing it a half turn more or by turning it in by a quarter turn.

Once it has fully warmed up adjust the idle speed with the throttle stop screw so it is idling at 850-900rpm as indicated by the tach. The throttle stop screw is just to the left of the mixture screw and clearly acts on the linkage. The next step is to adjust the idle speed using the idle mixture screw, turn it in until the idle starts to drop rpm, then back it out a smidge so the idle stays stable.

You will want to rev the engine a bit between adjustments and then let it settle back to the base rpm.

You may find that the idle mixture screw doesn't look like a needle, it may look like a cone with a step and is then cylindrical until the threads start. If this is the case you may not get much in the way of idle speed adjustment with the idle mixture screw, this version tends to act more like an on off switch. I suspect you can get one from Jeff Stich (he has already posted to this thread) as he likely has piles of them and he does like to turn a part or two. He has been my dealer for this addiction for many years :wink2:

You may alternatively find that no matter what you do it won't idle. This may be caused by the idle circuit in the carb being clogged with dirt or some other extraneous muck in the bowl of the carb. To deal with this you will want to acquire a carb rebuild kit to get new gaskets and plenty of spray carb cleaner and you will need to take out all the jets emulsion tubes and so on. This is a fundamentally simple carb so don't be intimidated. I would wait for the manual before engaging in this however.

I hope this helps get you on your way.

Karl
 
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Tried your suggestions on the mixture screw and throttle stop screw and the car is now idling right at 850 rpm. Nice strong, stable idle. All is well :love:
 
Glad my directions were clear enough. These are nice simple cars that respond well to simple ministrations of care.

Congrats! Always nice when a plan comes together!
 
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