Lancia Beta engine in Fiat 124

Alfa75racer

Tony Musto
Has anyone installed a Beta engine in a 124 spider? The reason I ask is I had fully built a Beta engine with the intent of installing that drivetrain in an X1/9 but the X has too much rust/rot from sitting to make it worth it. Spiders seem to be plentiful and like the idea of a roadster. I'm assuming swap the flywheel and clutch, oil pan, pump and pick up from a 124 to the Beta engine and of course the motor mounts are different being transverse vs longitudinal. Does anyone know if a 124 transmission bolt up to the Beta block?
 
Has anyone installed a Beta engine in a 124 spider? The reason I ask is I had fully built a Beta engine with the intent of installing that drivetrain in an X1/9 but the X has too much rust/rot from sitting to make it worth it. Spiders seem to be plentiful and like the idea of a roadster. I'm assuming swap the flywheel and clutch, oil pan, pump and pick up from a 124 to the Beta engine and of course the motor mounts are different being transverse vs longitudinal. Does anyone know if a 124 transmission bolt up to the Beta block?

The bell housing bolt pattern is different. How far off, I can't say for sure - but I know it is different. Not sure about the oil pan? Do you need to swap the pan if they are different?
 
thanks!

I was only assuming the pan and pump as the engine in the Beta is tilted back and the 124 appears straight up and down. I haven't had the two side by side, this is really just an idea at this point.
 
Another difference...

I don't know about the transaxle/block bolt pattern difference, I've never heard that before. As far as I know the ßeta and 124/2000 block are similar.

But I do know that the camboxes are different, since the engine is tilted 20º in the ßeta. To have the proper oil bath level in the camboxes, you'll need 124/2000 camboxes.
 
I don't know about the transaxle/block bolt pattern difference, I've never heard that before. As far as I know the ßeta and 124/2000 block are similar.

But I do know that the camboxes are different, since the engine is tilted 20º in the ßeta. To have the proper oil bath level in the camboxes, you'll need 124/2000 camboxes.


Ok - admit I was wrong. I just confirmed engine-trans bolt pattern are the same. Sump and oil pick up are different.
 
How did you confirm? Just wondering. At least if you're right that I'm right, then I'm not as crazy as I feel sometimes. :whistle:
 
Trere the same

I put a 1979 fiat 124 engine in my X19 mated to a Scorpion transaxle. It is the same as the Lancia transaxle bolt pattern wise.

Charlie
 
How did you confirm? Just wondering. At least if you're right that I'm right, then I'm not as crazy as I feel sometimes. :whistle:

A friend who lives close literally happened to stop by. I know he had a Scorpion and MANY Fiats (including a 124) so I figured it was worth checking. He answered so quick, I was certain he was right ;)

So, you are only as crazy as I am...:excited:
 
Another difference to be aware of

is that there are different motor mount points between a Scorp engine and a 124 engine. This is in the area the would become the "rear" of the block in a Scorp and is on the passenger side of the block in a longitudinal configuration, near the "front" (accessory) end of the engine.

The 124 block has a mount point that sticks out with an unthreaded bolt hole in the longitudinal axis. The Scorp block just has 3 flat bosses down the side of the engine in this area, with threaded holes heading into the block.

When I installed a 124 motor in my Scorp, I had to modify the Scorp engine mounting plate to make it accommodate this.

Come to think of it, since I did put a 2.0l 124 motor into my Scorp, I can confirm that the trans bolts up no problem.

Pete
 
Thanks for all the responses

This is a great forum. Good point on the cam boxes. This actually my main concern as I have a later FI 2 liter with the distributor on the back of the cam box.
 
Bellhousing bolt pattern is definitely the same.
sump is different,oil pump is different,waterpump is different.
Crank won't have a spigot bearing in the lancia crank,it has a bush you need to remove and replace with a bearing.
camboxes will need to be changed
if you have the cam end driven distributor obviously that willcause fitment issues, so you need to change that
inlet manifold and carb are different

quite a bit to change over, it would be simpler to start with a 124 engine, unless you doing a rebuild and planning on this as a CORE engine.

SteveC
 
Hi alpha 75 racer

When I did my conversion I used a 124 cam box and a Scorpion cam box. That way I could put a distributor in either cam box. Since then I have gone to a wasted spark and changed both cam boxes to the type that have no distributor mount. Now I am in the process of going to a wasted spark COP system so I can get rid of the coil and spark plug wires. Room is really important so I am changing what I can for clerance.

Charlie
 
It looks like it's not worth the time/energy to cobble it together. I'll shelve that engine for some other project that comes along that suites it better.
 
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Swap cam boxes, etc?

I would like to put a Spider engine in an X. Since I'll be using a Scorpion trans I suppose I'll have to get some camboxes to tilt the engine. Ditto on the oil pan/oil pump. As long as the Beta engine angle is the same as the Scorpion engine angle I would be interested in a swap of parts. I've also got the Spider motor mounts too. It could work out well for both of us.
 
Same angle...

Beta and Scorpion blocks are both inclined 20º. The Scorpion has different camboxes, oil pan (and pickup I assume), accessory pulleys. The blocks use different areas for engine mount attachment, so there are mounting hole differences as already mentioned.
 
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