New long time project ideas

autox19

autox19

True Classic
As I am wrapping up the spider, and I have the X where I love it, it is time to start thinking about a new venture. Criteria: looking for a 5ish year process give or take, low (under 4k) start up cost, unique , and small. Early thoughts are a fibefab avenger kit car never finished, found a semi local fiat multipla in pretty rough shape ( https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/793472762250437/?mibextid=dXMIcH ), taking a sand rail, lowering it and turning it into a street cart. Etc.
Thoughts?

Odie
 
Having built a few kit cars and sand rails - including converting one to a "street car" - I can add my opinions.

Almost all kit cars were not well engineered, designed, nor manufactured. They require a TON of modification and alteration to even get close to making them work. And the cost escalates VERY quickly due to the multitude of additional parts that are needed to complete them. Especially when you consider the final result never seems to be what you envisioned. To me it is one of those things where the allure of the concept far exceeds the reality of it.

Sand rails have suspensions designed for off road applications. Even with plenty of modifications they tend to not handle well on the street. Particularly if you intend it to be a performance vehicle rather than a dual-use one (on and off road).

My preference would be to find a vehicle with a overall style that you love, with a decent condition body, then completely replace the entire undercarriage (chassis, suspension, powertrain, brakes, etc) with components from a higher performance vehicle. Either a total "body swap" or a extensive components swap. Making it look like a classic vintage car but with the performance and functionality of a modern one. As Karl said, that Multipla would be fun. A few years ago I had the opportunity to get one with a very solid body shell, but rusted pans and missing most of the mechanicals....with the intent to do a complete swap. However I passed due to a lack of time to add yet another project to my list.

Some other models that I'd love to build include a Autobianchi A112, or a Fiat 127 / Panda / Uno, or a Yugo, or a Lada Niva, etc...body swapped and slammed to the ground with tons of customization.
 
JimD said:
This Fiberfab unfinished kit is local to STL. I had never heard of this company before. I am not sure how much it looks like a GT40, even looking at this FF kit that is more finished.

Now a B series swapped Multipla... that could be interesting. :)
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That was the exact one I was looking at. It was relisted.
A swap was on my mind for the multipla as there doesn't seem enough there to warrant bringing it back to stock. This part also has me thinking that I would probably be making a custom full frame to hold it all together. With it being as thin as it is I am not sure what I could meld in to make it work front and rear. The b barely fits in the x that is notably wider. My cousin thought about maybe a vw could fit

Odie
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Having built a few kit cars and sand rails - including converting one to a "street car" - I can add my opinions.

Almost all kit cars were not well engineered, designed, nor manufactured. They require a TON of modification and alteration to even get close to making them work. And the cost escalates VERY quickly due to the multitude of additional parts that are needed to complete them. Especially when you consider the final result never seems to be what you envisioned. To me it is one of those things where the allure of the concept far exceeds the reality of it.

Sand rails have suspensions designed for off road applications. Even with plenty of modifications they tend to not handle well on the street. Particularly if you intend it to be a performance vehicle rather than a dual-use one (on and off road).

My preference would be to find a vehicle with a overall style that you love, with a decent condition body, then completely replace the entire undercarriage (chassis, suspension, powertrain, brakes, etc) with components from a higher performance vehicle. Either a total "body swap" or a extensive components swap. Making it look like a classic vintage car but with the performance and functionality of a modern one. As Karl said, that Multipla would be fun. A few years ago I had the opportunity to get one with a very solid body shell, but rusted pans and missing most of the mechanicals....with the intent to do a complete swap. However I passed due to a lack of time to add yet another project to my list.

Some other models that I'd love to build include a Autobianchi A112, or a Fiat 127 / Panda / Uno, or a Yugo, or a Lada Niva, etc...body swapped and slammed to the ground with tons of customization.
Click to expand...
Gotcha on the street rail. The intention would be for looks not performance. Keeps my insurance rates lower lol. But I get it and it was low on the list
I also have been well versed in the kit car world since the early 80s. More recently helped my cousin finish off a manta mirage.
Overall style I love. Small, extremely low. (Think Stratos zero) and yes I am an attention where and like them so unique people have to ask about it.

Odie
 
Adding. My ultimate dream is an open wheel older formula style that I can make street legal. (Tons of work I know as I have went through the pain of making a kit street legal and that was tough enough) which is why I was looking at goblin df. But the starting cost is too high. Spending 12k out of the gate is tougher than 12k spread across 5 years.


Odie
 
autox19 said:
I would probably be making a custom full frame to hold it all together.
Click to expand...
That's how I would approach it. On airbags, with the body over the frame so it lays the body's rockers on the ground. Perhaps even a front engine, rear drive powertrain?
 
autox19 said:
The b barely fits in the x that is notably wider. My cousin thought about maybe a vw could fit
Click to expand...
Use an F20 and 6 speed from an S2000. Already set up in the correct orientation. You are building a tube frame, so it could be a mid-engine Multipla with just front seats. It will be the only one at the CnC for sure. :)
 
JimD said:
Use an F20 and 6 speed from an S2000.
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I thought about using that drive train for another project, but Honda S2000's have become unobtainable prices (at least for me).

At one time you could get several choices of nice I4 or I6 longitudinal engines and manual transmissions from the JDM importers; off models we never got, with low miles, Japanese spec, and cheap. But that was ruined by the drift crowd - now they are quite expensive....if you can find them.
 
JimD said:
it could be a mid-engine Multipla with just front seats
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I also like that idea. I'd be hard pressed to decide between: A) a light weight, high power, mid-engine minivan that could do wheelies, or B) a front engine / rear drive minivan that does amazing burnouts, donuts, and drifts. :p
 
Leaning towards the multipla. My friends convo is leaning towards getting a beefed up vw trans and a rotary. Would be the same config as it currently is. Can't find a fwd set up that is thin enough to fit without doing a shogun type boxed back.

Odie
 
Rotary's do not have much torque and need to be revved to the moon to perform. But they are light and compact.

A rear engine with lots of torque should allow some wheel stands in a light vehicle like this. :D Consider a Subaru instead of the rotary. They are common upgrades for older air-cooled rear-engine VW's. And you can make a lot of power with them as well.
 
Turn the multipla into a pickup, which would be sad on the one referenced since the top is the only decent metal on it! Stick an 850 motor in it and off you go, might even hit 80mph.
 
Although, going through my head is maybe another X. There are things I would love to play around with in an X. maybe keep the stock motor, maybe a different swap. maybe do some custom crazy body mods. maybe I should start looking for one or a shell. who knows.

Odie
 
While I have removed many hundreds of pounds from my X, I always wanted to see how much more bodywork I could remove/lighten and still have it streetable....obviously at some point you might go too far and have to throw the body away so start with something in sad shape. My X feels really peppy event though only the intake and exhaust are modified and then remember that you can add power or reduce weight.

Like removing all the body behind the brace between the engine and rear trunk or cut out the inner fenders at the front.
 
carl said:
While I have removed many hundreds of pounds from my X, I always wanted to see how much more bodywork I could remove/lighten and still have it streetable....obviously at some point you might go too far and have to throw the body away so start with something in sad shape. My X feels really peppy event though only the intake and exhaust are modified and then remember that you can add power or reduce weight.

Like removing all the body behind the brace between the engine and rear trunk or cut out the inner fenders at the front.
Click to expand...
X cart, like the vette carts but way more nimble.

Odie
 
autox19 said:
Adding. My ultimate dream is an open wheel older formula style that I can make street legal. (Tons of work I know as I have went through the pain of making a kit street legal and that was tough enough) which is why I was looking at goblin df. But the starting cost is too high. Spending 12k out of the gate is tougher than 12k spread across 5 years.


Odie
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Plenty of old formula FF (absolutely avoid "formula vee" non-real race car) and other chassis that can be had at a bargain. Pick any for a conversion with the drive train of your choice to road going, add fenders, reg as a "home built".. Far easier than a production base road car project.. and the results can be :)


Bernice
 
Many years ago I contemplated the idea of turning a FF into a street car. As Bernice says, they are cheap to get. I've seen other open-wheel race cars turned into street legal cars. Even a modern'ish F1. However they often end up looking awkward; once raised high enough to actually drive on the street they end up sitting silly tall. And adding all the required components to make them legal changes their appearance too much. Perhaps start with a older closed-wheel racer like a C-sports racer:
sport.jpg

But they may be too costly, not sure.
 
autox19 said:
Although, going through my head is maybe another X. There are things I would love to play around with in an X. maybe keep the stock motor, maybe a different swap. maybe do some custom crazy body mods. maybe I should start looking for one or a shell. who knows.

Odie
Click to expand...
I've mentioned this before. A few years ago I purchased a "parts car" X that was a bit rusty. However after getting it home and going over it more closely I realized (for the most part) the rusty parts were all non-critical areas. The actual structural components are still quite solid. So I started thinking about using it as the basis for a crazy custom build....along the lines of what you suggested. Think center mounted single seat, weld the doors shut and cut away a ton of unnecessary metal, trim the bodywork at each end, stripped down as much as possible, topless, wings, etc. Sort of a track-day special, meets concept car, meets "outlaw" roadster, meets time-attack car, but still street legal(ish). I'd still like to do that someday but not sure I'll ever have the time.
 
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